Reading/Questions for Homer, The Iliad, Books 22, 23 & 24 (the end!)

NOTE: For next week, be sure to finish the book and read the last three books (or get as close as you can). Answer 2 of the following questions--your last set for The Iliad! And don't forget to turn in your papers! For Monday classes it's due on Wednesday by 5pm; for Wednesday classes it's due on Friday by 5pm; and for Friday classes it's due on Monday by 5pm. The assignment sheet is a few posts down...please look it over again before you write the paper!  

Q1: In a passage omitted from our version of Book 24, the gods debate about whether Achilles should give up Hector’s body.  Apollo, who thinks he should, speaks:

How callous can you get?  Has Hector

Never burned for you thighs of bulls and goats?

…but now you cannot

Bring yourselves to save even his bare corpse

For his wife to look upon, and his mother,

And child, and Priam, and his people…

No, it’s the dread Achilles that you prefer,

His twisted mind is set on what he wants,

As savage as a lion bristling with pride,

Attacking men’s flocks to make himself a feast.

Achilles has lost all pity and has no shame left.

Shame sometimes hurts men, but it helps them too.

A man may lose someone dearer than Achilles has,

A brother from the same womb, or a son,

But when he has wept and mourned, he lets go.

The Fates have given men an enduring heart.

But this man?  After he kills Hector,

He ties him behind his charior

And drags him around his dear friend’s tomb.

Does this make him a better or nobler man? (lines 37-57)

What do you think Apollo means by an “enduring heart,” and why might this speech suggest that hubris is a quality of gods—not men? 

Q2: How does Book 24 present Achilles’ decision to give Hector’s body back to Priam?  Is it still an act of compassion and mercy?  Does this book redeem Achilles in our eyes, or is he merely a pawn of the gods, forced to do Zeus’ bidding? 

Q3: How do the various women respond to Hector’s body—Andromache, Hecuba, and Helen?  How does this give us different perspectives on who Hector was, and whether or not he died honorably—or for the right reason? 

Q4: Why do you think the book ends with the funeral of Hector, rather than with the fall of Troy, or even the death of Achilles?  If the story is about Achilles’ rage, then why not end with the natural outcome of his rage—his death?  Why is ending the book here, rather than later on in the actual story of Troy, somehow satisfying?

Lecture Video #5 for The Iliad

 Here it is--the new blog for the week! Sorry for the delay, but you can respond to this any time next week with a COMMENT. Just watch the video first. :) And don't forget about the Paper #1 assignment posted a few posts down...the due dates are coming up! 

Writing Tips for Paper #1

 INTEGRATING QUOTATIONS INTO YOUR PAPER, MLA STYLE

 The Quote: “Every decent, sane man

Loves his woman and cares for her, as I did,

Loved her from my heart. It doesn’t matter

That I won her with my spear.”

     I. INTRODUCE QUOTES (some examples)

• In Homer’s The Iliad, Achilles tells the Greeks that...
• In an important passage in Book 9 of the Iliad, Achilles explains why he refuses to take restitution for Agamemnon’s insult…
• In Book 9, Achilles’ response to betraying the Greeks over an insult is…

II. CITE PAGE NUMBER AND/OR AUTHOR

(61) or (Book 9) or (Lines 349-352)

NOT (The Book), OR (The Iliad), OR (Homer)

III. RESPOND TO THE QUOTE (always explain why you quoted it or how it relates to your essay)

When confronted about his stubborn refusal to help the Greeks, Achilles explains that “Every decent, sane man/Loves his woman and cares for her, as I did,/Loved her from my heart. It doesn’t matter/That I won her with my spear” (61). This is important because it shows that Achilles isn’t just stubborn or prideful, since Briseus was more than a prize—she was almost his wife. So if other men, such as Menelaus, are insulted by the loss of their wives, how can Achilles, another “sane man” act any different?

NOTE: You can use (/) to separate lines in poetry instead of making it look like poetry in your paper, since that takes up unnecessary space—and I know you don’t want to do that! J But it’s okay if you quote poetry normally, just try not to use very long passages.

IV. WORKS CITED PAGE

Homer, The Iliad. Translated by Stanley Lombardo. Indianapolis:

Hackett, 2000.

 

 

Reading/Questions for Homer, The Iliad, Books 16,18, 19

NOTE: We'll be spending two more weeks on The Iliad before moving on, so keep reading and finish it as soon as you can. Don't forget about your Paper #1 assignment, which will also be due very soon (a few posts down)! 

Answer TWO of the following: 

Q1: How does Patroclus compare as a hero to Achilles?  While Patroclus is clearly not Achilles’ equal, how does the book contrast him with his more famous friend?  What sentiments/ideas does Patroclus represent that runs counter to Achilles? 

Q2: How heroic or honorable does Hector appear in his battle with Patroclus?  Is Hector the “good” hero as opposed to the “bad” Achilles?  Are we rooting for him?  Does he act in accordance to the values of heroism in our culture?  Does the poet celebrate his victory—or does he, too, betray the code of honor in some way? 

Q3: In Book 9, Phoenix warns Achilles that “if you go into battle without any gifts/Your honor will be less, save us or not” (68).  When Achilles finally decide to fight in Book 18, is this seen as an honorable decision?  Has he ‘saved’ his honor?  What explanation does he offer for abandoning his grudge against Agamemnon?  Is it enough? 

Q4: In Book 19 Briseis finally gets to speak: what does she say and how does it define her as a character?  What do we learn about her (and her relationship with Achilles), and how does she compare to the other speaking women—Helen and Andromache? 

Lecture Video #4: Fate, Gods, and Man

Be sure to watch the video below (approx. 17 min) and respond to the question at the end with a COMMENT below. Also--be sure to read Books 6,9, & 12 and answer the questions in the post below. The questions are always due on your face-to-face class day (even if you don't come), but the video can be answered anytime next week. 

Reading/Questions for Homer, The Iliad, Books 6, 9, & 12

From Gareth Hinds' graphic novel, The Iliad

NOTE: Try to read Books 6-16 for next week, though these questions will only cover the first three books. I'll post a separate lecture video for Book 16, since it's longer and you might need more time to finish it. But we'll talk about all of them next week for those who come to class.

ALSO: If you're having trouble keeping some of the names straight, refer to pages 158-165 of our book, which is a GLOSSARY of the main characters in the book. It really helps the first time you encounter someone with a particularly long and exotic name like Andromache or Polypoetes. 

Answer 2 of the following:

Q1: In Book 9, Achilles makes a long and impassioned defense of his refusal to return to the war. Though Ajax is very dismissive of his answer, what do you make of it? Are we supposed to be sympathetic of Achilles here? Is this how we would respond to Agamemnon's request to return to battle? Or is he being a spoiled demigod here, using his pride and position to doom hundreds of Greek soldiers to their death? 

Q2: In Book 6, the battle stops for a short dialogue between Diomedes, the powerful Greek warrior, and Glaucus, a famous Trojan. Why is this an important encounter in displaying the beliefs and values of Greek society? Though both are warriors, what is clearly more important than winning in battle?

Q3: In Book 9, the Greek named Phoenix tells Achilles that "Prayer are daughters of great Zeus./Lame and wrinkled and with eyes averted,/They are careful to follow in Folly's footsteps,/But Folly is strong and fleet, and outruns them all,/Beating them everywhere and plaguing humans,/Who are cured by the Prayers when they come behind" (65). What is he trying to tell Achilles (and us) through this instructive metaphor? Why might this sound like the kind of advice Sappho gives in some of her poems? 

Q4: Several people in The Iliad seem to have a fatalistic approach to life, as we seen in Book 12 when Sarpedom tells Glaucus, "death is everywhere/In more shapes than we can count,/And since no mortal is immune or can escape,/Let's go forward, either to give glory/To another man or get glory from him" (74). Do you find this an optimistic or a pessimistic philosophy? If you believed this, would you be more inspired to do great deeds of heroism...or to abandon great deeds as a pointless pursuit? 

Paper #1 Assignment: The Greek Conversation

 

Like your reading questions, I’m giving you four possibilities to choose from here, but I only want you to write about ONE of them. However, I want you to give me more thought and effort than you would give in your questions. Write a 3-4 page (double spaced) response quoting from both books as support. Think about our class discussions and videos (and your previous questions) and show me the connections you see between both books. If you don't use both books in your response, or turn in a paper less than 3-4 pages, you risk getting a zero on the assignment (so be careful!). 

We'll discuss proper citation of books in class next week, as well as constructing a Works Cited page (though you should remember this, or know it, from high school and Comp 1 as well). 

CHOOSE ONE:

Q1. Which character or characters in The Iliad could have been written or created by Sappho? In other words, which ones express sentiments, ideas, or even a basic philosophy similar to Sappho’s poems? Discuss a specific passage that shows this character speaking, or acting, in a way that echoes one or more of Sappho’s fragments. Be as specific as possible so we can appreciate the connection. You might also consider whether a character takes her ideas and twists them in a new direction—maybe a more ‘masculine’ translation of Sappho.

Q2. In general, Greek culture is obsessed with immortality—not for the soul, but for the individual’s qualities/character.  As Sappho writes, “later on...in an age unlike our own/Someone will remember who we are” (87).  In The Iliad, how does the poet discuss the difference between doing glorious deeds (for one’s own immortality) and doing just/good deeds (for society’s immortality)?  Can being a hero actually be at the expense of society?  Who should a hero live and die for? 

Q3. According to Sappho and The Iliad, what is the role of the gods in human society? Sure, they’re “gods” and control the fate of the world, but how important are they really? What do they do for humanity, and what do they need from humanity? Do both works agree on this? Do they seem more reverent toward the gods, or more critical of them? You might also consider whether either work even seems to believe in the Gods. Are they the “menu” and not the “food”? (to quote from our last lecture video).

Q4. Sappho writes almost exclusively about the various forms of love (and lust) in the ancient world. Yet The Iliad is also a poem about love, since the love for a woman starts the Trojan War and every great hero (Achilles, Hector) is defined by his love for a woman. So how did the Greeks view love: as a destructive force? An ennobling force? The most beautiful thing in the world—or the most terrifying? Is their view of love basically the same as ours, or did the ancient Greeks have different views on love between men and women—and women and women?

DUE DATES:

• MONDAY CLASS: Wednesday, September 30^th by 5pm
• WEDNEDAY CLASS: Friday, October 2^nd by 5pm
• FRIDAY CLASS: Monday, October 5^th by 5pm

Schedule Changes for The Iliad

NOTE: Since the Monday classes didn't meet last week, I decided to give everyone a break and not post a lecture video this week. Just try to catch up on the reading--The Iliad, Books 1-3. The questions in the post below are due in class next week. ALSO, I changed the schedule slightly since we were a day behind. This reflects our new schedule until the paper is due, at which point we will resume the schedule on the syllabus. As you'll see, the changes are very minor.

MONDAY CLASS

M 7                  Labor Day: No Class

W 9                 Blog: Video, The Iliad, Books 1-3

F 11                 No Blog—Keep Reading!

 

M 14                Discussion: The Iliad Books 1-3

W 16               Blog: Reading/Questions for The Iliad, Books 6, 9, 12

F 18                 Blog: Video, The Iliad, Book 16

 

M 21                Discussion: The Iliad, Books 6-16

W 23               Blog: Reading/Questions for The Iliad, Books 19, 22, 23, 24

F 25                 Blog: Video, The Iliad, Books 19-24

 

M 28                Discussion: The Iliad, Books 19-24

W 30               Paper #1 due by 5pm

 

WEDNESDAY CLASS

M 7                  Blog: Greek Mythology, etc.

W 9                 In-Class Discussion: The Iliad, Book 1

F 11                 Blog: Reading/Questions for The Iliad, Books 1-3

 

M 14                [No Blog: Keep Reading!]

W 16               Discussion: The Iliad, Books 1-3

F 18                 Blog: Reading/Questions for The Iliad, Books 6,9,12

 

M 21                Blog: Video, The Iliad Books 16

W 23               Discussion: The Iliad, Books 6-16

F 25                 Blog: Reading/Questions for The Iliad, Books 19, 22, 23, 24

 

M 28                Blog: Video, The Iliad, Books 19-24

W 30               Discussion: The Iliad, Books 19-24

F 2                   Paper #1 due by 5pm

 

FRIDAY CLASS

F 4                   In-Class Discussion for The Iliad, Book 1

 

M 14                Blog: Reading/Questions for The Iliad, Books 1-3

W 16               [No Blog: Keep Reading!]

F 18                 In-Class Discussion for Sappho, The Iliad, Books 1-3

 

M 21                Blog: Reading/Questions for The Iliad, Books 6,9,12 

 

W 23               Blog: Video, The Iliad, Books 16

F 25                 In-Class Discussion for The Iliad, Books 6-16

 

M 28                Blog: Reading/Questions for The Iliad, Books 19, 22, 23, 24

W 30               Blog: Video, The Iliad, Books 19-24

F 2                   In-Class Discussion for The Iliad, Books 19-24

 

OCTOBER

M 5                  Paper #1 due by 5pm

 

 

 

Reading/Questions for Homer, The Iliad, Books 1-3

NOTE: Friday's class should do the posts below this one first. This will be for next week (the week of the 14th).

Answer two of the following:

Q1: From the first three books, what kind of relationship do humans have with the gods? What role do the gods serve for them, and likewise, what roles do humans serve for the gods?  What makes this relationship so different from the man/God relationship in most monotheistic religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam)? 

Q2: Examine Achilles’ confrontation with Agamemnon in Book I: how do we respond to him as a hero in this passage?  Does he seem modern and sympathetic here, or is he petulant and childish?  Do you think Homer’s audience would have felt the same (or is it just how we see it)?

Q3: Though Achilles is often thought to be the embodiment of hubris (excessive pride, overconfidence, etc.), in what ways does Agamemnon also deserve this title?  How do we see the leader of the Greek armies display this quality, and how does it endanger the Greeks’ relationship with the gods?

Q4: In Book 3, Helen confronts Aphrodite and tells her, “It would be treason to share [Paris’] bed” (41). Why is she so disgusted by Paris and defiant toward Aphrodite? Do you think this is how Sappho would have envisioned or characterized Helen? Why or why not?

Lecture Video #3: Greek Mythology and The Iliad

NOTE: Be sure to read Book 1 (chapter 1) of The Essential Iliad for next week. For Wednesday and Friday classes, we'll talk about Book 1 in class, but mostly I'll try to tell you some things to notice and look out for. Later next week, I'll post the first reading questions for the later chapters--so feel free to read ahead.

ALSO: I buried the response question in the video itself, so please watch the video so you know what to respond to. Then write your response as a COMMENT below, or e-mail it to me. (I notice some people aren't watching the videos, so be careful--they will help you with the readings!) 

Last Questions for Sappho's Poems

* You don't have to comment on the blog for this assignment--it's like your normal 4 questions, but I only gave you one. You can bring this to class with you or e-mail it to me instead if you like. 

NOTE: Be sure to get our next book, The Essential Iliad, since we'll start reading that next week. I'll post a video soon to introduce you to the world of Greek gods/mythology that the work is set in.

READ THE POEMS FROM PAGES 189-355 (most are just a line long)

ONLY ONE QUESTION THIS TIME!

Q1: Most of the poems in this part of the book are very fragmentary, and some are only a few words. We don't really know if all of these are distinct poems, or actually belong to each other. Indeed, some of these poems might all be part of one 'lost' poem, just in different versions. So choose 4-5 "tiny" poems that you think would work together as a larger poem. Write that poem out and explain why you think these lines work well together and help us 'see' a larger poem or story. 

FOR EXAMPLE, here's mine:

I conversed with you in a dream Kyrpogeneia (134)

and gold chickpeas were growing on the banks (143)

mingled with all kinds of colors (152)

my darling one (163),

someone will remember us, I say, even in another time (147)

I chose these lines because they paint a picture of a dream-world where the poet and her lover live together in happiness, by the bank of a river with gold chickpeas growing, full of all kinds of colors. It's a memory of happier times when they weren't far apart. And she the poet tells her that even though they're apart and forgotten today, someone will one day remember their love, maybe thousands of years later, when they read about it in a poem. Just like we are today! :) 

See? Wasn't that fun? Now try to make your own!