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| An actual fragment of Sappho' s poetry |
Be sure to read the few fragments in the last chapter, "The Wisdom of Sappho" before responding to the question below. However, you can use poems from anywhere in the book to answer this response, either in the last chapter or other ones.
Respond
to the following question in a developed paragraph (at least 4-5 sentences,
with sufficient detail to answer the question). Even though Sappho’s
poetry consists largely of fragments, many of these fragments seem to go
together, as if they express the same basic thoughts or themes. Looking
through the poems in our book, choose 3-4 fragments that seem (to you) able to
work together to make a complete poem. Why do these works go together,
and what do we see if we read the fragments as one complete work? How
might this help our appreciation of Sappho and our understanding of women in
the ancient world? Be sure to quote from one or two of the poems to
illustrate your ideas.
Priscilla Texter
ReplyDeleteThe poem on page 23 ends, "But I must suffer further, worthless/As i am..."
I believe a good add on to this poem would be, "But I must suffer further, worthless/ As I am...because/ The people I most strive to please/ Do me the worst injuries..."
This poem seems to contain a very passionate love and a very strong jealousy. Adding the second part on really emphasizes the jealous part. You could also almost add another stanza like the one on page, 27 "You were at hand,/ And I broke down raving-/ My craving a fire/ That singed my mind,/ A brand you quenched."
All of these poems and fragments are about passionate love and jealousy which gives us an appreciation for Sappho because even though we do not have all her completed work, we can still infer and feel what she is saying through her poem. It just shows how intelligent these ancient women were and how they craved love and attention.
The poem I envision is
"That fellow strikes me as god's double,
Couched with you face to face, delighting
In your warm manner, your amiable
Talk and inviting
Laughter - the revelation flutters
My ventricles, my sternum and stomach.
The least glimpse, and my lost voice stutters,
Refuses to come back
Because my tongue is shattered. Gauzy
Flame runs radiating under
My skin; all that I see is hazy,
My ears all thunder.
Sweat comes quickly, and a shiver
Vibrates my frame. I am more sallow
Than a grass and suffer such a fever
As death should follow.
But I must suffer further, worthless
As I am because
The people I most strive to please
Do me the worst injuries
You were at hand,
And I broke down raving-
My craving a fire
That singed my mind,
A brand you quenched."
Excellent poem--very detailed and believable. It creates a real sense of drama and character, and it nicely ties together the themes we've seen throughout the book. I like how the poem comes full circle, from rejection to acceptance--or the idea that she could still be accepted.
DeleteI feel like there are several of Sappho’s fragments that could be placed together and almost make one complete poem, because Sappho mainly wrote about the same topic which is love. One great example is the poems on pages 23 and 39; the fragments on page 23, Sappho is talking about how she is watching a girl that she is obviously very fond of talk to a guy, how this girl seems to enjoy the company of this man. Sappho goes on in the fragments to wish death upon herself saying “As death should follow. But I must suffer further, worthless as I am…” and when you read the fragments page 39 the two pages seem to coincide. On page 39 Sappho is almost talking about a break up, she says “You will have memories Because of what we did back then..” and “I loved you once, years ago, Atthis,” when you read these two poems together, it sounds like Sappho has come across an old lover and their new “partner”, and starts to feel the heartbreak of losing them all over again, and reminisces on old times spent with them. Also the fragments on page 83 could be out with the fragments on page 67. Sappho on page 83 is talking about how girls need to wait for the right person, and just because they look good and “say” they have money or good looks doesn’t always mean they are a good choice she says “The gorgeous man presents a gorgeous view; The good man will in time be gorgeous too.” And Sappho ends the page with “Neither the honey nor the bee For me…” On page 67 the top fragment beginning with “A ripe red apple…” could go right along with page 83. Sappho talks about how girls shouldn’t give themselves to the first guy/guys that come alonge, because they might look like the “one” but it reality it turns out they were just looking to score, and if you wait long enough some guy will come along and sweep you of your feet.
ReplyDeleteGreat connections--this becomes an even more coherent poem of advice and wisdom. Nice way to tie these themes together,
DeleteAndrew Reeves
ReplyDeleteOn page 25 Sappho writes several fragments that seem related. She writes about suffering and and saying goodbye to someone, yet the next stanza says if that person does leave that she will remember them and what they meant to her. She then continues to describe a moment in time that they were together and happy, and even though these are different broken stanzas, they all seem to be describing this good moment together. The main aspect that ties these stanzas together is the language they use. in the first stanza she uses "'In all honesty, I want to die.'" and then the next stanza states "Leaving for good after a good long cry, She said: 'We both have suffered terribly, But, Sappho, it is hard to say goodbye.' The next stanza seems to continue this by stating "I said: 'Go with my blessing if you go" thus seeming to continue on. This set of poems opens our eyes to the life of women in the ancient world, and maybe a glimpse into Sappho's teenage years or early adulthood and her alleged relationships with other women. Another set of poems that seem to fit together in this manner are the poems on page 37. They seem to be describing a girl that loved someone"The girl that adored you more than anything, As if you were a goddess-", and tells how she adored this person, and then goes on to describe her and how she likes to talk long walks and worries about her future "The stars surrounding her. with equal grace...Her fortune eats at her inconstant thoughts".
Great poem--as you suggest, we see the aftermath of love in these poems, and the heavy sense of nostalgia that is so part of Sappho's work. Very nicely done!
Delete69 59 33
ReplyDeleteI chose three fragments from different poems that all seemed to have the same theme, which in Sappho's poetry is a very common theme and that is "love". The fragments I put together from the start to finish are a stanza from page 69 another stanza from 59 and the whole page 33. All three of these fragments seem to talk about the love of a pretty and how breath taking her beauty really is. I really liked these three pieces because I'm sort of a hopeless romantic myself and I love hearing love poems because its something we can all connect to on an emotional level, and I really think that is one of the big parts of poetry is writing down your feelings and hoping that it connects with somebody else somewhere.
Great response/connections. What lines or images seem especially romantic or breathtaking to you? What is the overall mood of your poem? Most of her love poems are a little dark or bitter; do you see that here as well?
DeleteI found three poems that worked together to describe how women in the ancient world were seen, and known to be important in continuing families, but it was the men who took all the credit. I started with the poem on page 67, “A ripe red apple grows, the highest of them all/ Over the treetop, way up on a tapering spray/ But apple-gatherers never see it - no/ Rather, they do see it is far away/ Beyond their reach, impossible/ This matter stands just so.” I then thought that connecting the poem from page 71 would coincide because they are marching to a wedding, and it says, “For we march to a wedding - yes/ You know it well. So pack the maids off/ Quickly, and may the gods possess…” This poem is the connecting piece from ladies talking of their worth, to going to a wedding that has an interrupted ending talking of the gods, to the poem on page 77 that talks of the gods only praying for good things to happen for the groom. “The ambrosial mixture/ Ready in the mixing bowl/ Hermes went round with a pitcher/ And served the gods. When all/ Had tipped their goblets and poured offerings/ They prayed that the groom suffer only the good/ things.” I feel that altogether these pieces make up a revealing part of how some women looked upon marriage. They would look for a man who thought something of their character and might even think they could be equals, but after marriage the women just ended up living in their husband’s shadow.
ReplyDeleteGreat connections here--this creates a real story and sense of drama. We understand the women and what they were facing in their lives. Very good!
DeleteMargaret Mitchell
ReplyDeleteThe fragments I believe that seem to fit nicely together are the ones on page 67. They are also my favorite words of Sappho. (I) A ripe red apple grows, the highest of them all, Over the treetop, way up on a tapering spray, But apple-gatherers never see it- no, Rather, they do see it is far away, Beyond their reach, impossible. This matter stands just so. (II) A hillside hyacinth shepherds treaded flat, A red bloom in the dust-it is like that. ‘Maidenhead, maidenhead, where have you gone?’ ‘I shall never, ever join you again.’ They seem to go together because it seems that they are referring to the same topic and context. When you read it as a whole, it flows nicely and has the same theme throughout it. I believe that is why the translator put them together like she did. These specific fragments I believe help me and maybe others appreciate Sappho because she made noted how much worth women had and attempted to make them realize their worth as well. Even back then, women needed to know that and even so much in today’s society.
Good connections here--though I wonder what theme you see her specifically developing here that makes them so coherent (I agree, but we might see it for different reasons). Be as specific as possible since this will help you on your exam/paper.
DeleteAlbanie Beck
ReplyDelete"As for you girls, the gorgeous ones, There will be no change in my plans"
"Blest bridegroom, this day of matrimony, just as you wished it, has come true: the bride is whom you wished for"
"The gorgeous man presents a grogeous view; The good man will in time be gorgeous, too."
"What do you resemeble, dear husband-to-be? You resemble a supple seedling, a green tree."
"Becasue there is no other girl than she, Bridegroom-a child still, of such quality."
"Sweet mother, I can't take shuttle in hand. There is a boy, and lust has crushed my spirit-just as gentle Aphrodite planned."
"Because the people I most Strive to please do me the worst injuries."
"Over eyelids dark night fell, Invisible."
Sappho's poems are all fragmented the ones I chose was Pages 35, 77, 83, 75, 79, 7, 41, and 29. Because these poems to me fit well togther. The ones I picked is a mother and daughter talking about the daughter getting married. The mother wishes her daughter well and all happiness just like any mother would do. But the daughter has second thoughts. The mother tells her that she needs to know that even though she thinks he is gorgeous now that he will not always be like this but she should love him not matter what. The daughter tells her mother that she has found herself a man that she loved, but he crushed her. And she doesn't know why the people that she loves the most ends up hurting her the most. And now she has no reason to live and let the darkness takeover her.
Wow, this is a great poem: a real sense of drama and setting here. I would probably have thought this was an actual poem if I didn't know any better. Good work!
DeleteI like the poem that is talking about how the girls don't red to lower their standards so that the men would pick them first. I know that Sappho could get the fragments. pg. 67. " A ripe red apple grows, the highest of them all,/Over the treetop,way up on a tapering spray,/But apple-gatherers never see it - no,/Rather,they do see it is far away,/Beyond their reach, impossible./This matter stands just so." Then you can go ahead and put the next fragment with it on pg. 67. "A hillside hyacinth shepherds treaded flat,/A red bloom in the dust - it is like that.". On pg. 83 "The gorgeous man presents a gorgeous view;/Then good man will in time be gorgeous,too." to tie up the poem. The theme to the poem is that don't change who you are just so that a man will find you attractive. The girls should want a man that will work to get them. The end of the poem is kind of telling the guy that just because you pick an easy way out doesn't mean that they are going to be a beautiful person in the inside. That you need to find somebody that will be somebody that you see yourself with in the long run. If they just look up on the tree then they will find the person that is beautiful on the outside and the inside if you just give them a chance to show.
ReplyDeleteExcellent, detailed response--I can see this very clearly. Good discussion here.
DeleteThat fellow strikes me as god's double,
ReplyDeleteCouched with you face to face, delighting
In your warm manner, your amiable
Talk and inviting
Coasting off to Troy where she
Thought nothing of loving parents
And only a child led astray
Either I have slipped out of your head
Or you adore some other fellow more, instead
Sappho fallows a pretty simple but elegant theme, love. With all of her poetry in so many pieces it's really hard to say whether or not I'm reading her work. Could all these different pieces be written by several women and the name "Sappho" is really just the embodiment of these women? I believe it's a strong possibility. I'm sure that if my class was to write a poem and then we put the best lines from them into a single poem it would be really good.
-Taylor Hunter
That's a very interesting idea and I'm so glad you shared this in class. Who is/was Sappho? Maybe she was a group project? As you suggest, we probably could write a brilliant poem if we each contributed a line, a word, or even a metaphor. Why might her poems give you the impression of more than one author?
DeleteOn page 83 I feel that this passage, “The gorgeous man presents a gorgeous view” could come before the sentence “That fellow strikes me as a god’s double,” from page 23.
ReplyDeleteI also feel that the first stanza of page 33 “But I love extravagance, . . . .inheritance.” could be followed by the second stanza of page 83 where she speaks about wealth and that wealth is important, but with that wealth you need to do good and keep a good balance.
Good connections--but try to explain why you see it this way. Help us understand why you see these poems fitting together. In other words, do a bit more work! :)
Delete